Curse

D E C E P T I V E · Dec 15, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

The recent changes to SF make it impossible to perma with a mesmer now because SF does not last long enuff for arcane to recharge and repeat the SF chain.

I would like to see this fixed, why cant you put SF back to the way it was and just add monsters with touch skills or signet of disenchantment to the farming areas where SF is being abused.

All of the changes to Shadow form are because of the farming abuses according to the update notes, but the changes havent really caused any real problems for farming, they have just screwed up all the other uses for perma shadow form that are relatively harmless.

I used my me/a mainly to run the shiverpeaks cause I hate running them with a dervish.

Please either address the farming directly by making changes in the farming zones, or change arcane echo so it recharges fast enuff to make the Perma Shadow Form Chain possible with a primary mesmer again. Arcane echo+Deadly Paradox, then Shadow Form.

therangereminem · Dec 15, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

yoru so called abusing it too, go make a sin can perma that way easy lol , and added those thigns is whatr they dont want they just want to make it harder to do those certain areas and they have just not much, all we have is QQ's lik eyou becuz you dont want to use a sin

A11Eur0 · Dec 15, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

In a more civilized, mature and grammatically correct manner:

Mesmers were not meant to perma shadow form. Assassins should be the only profession that can keep shadow form up permanently and even that's a stretch. Make an assassin to do your running, or figure out a non-SF running build to Droks, they're out there.

MisterB · Dec 15, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:An...c_Forge_Runner

You're welcome.

And /notsigned.

the savage nornbear · Dec 15, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

More QQ is gud. Shadowform shouldn't be able to be maintained at all.

Lykan · Dec 15, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E

The recent changes to SF make it impossible to perma with a mesmer now because SF does not last long enuff for arcane to recharge and repeat the SF chain.

Pretty sure that was the idea behind it.

Spiritz · Dec 15, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Roflmao - this certainly made my day reading this , ever thought about using a conset to maintain sf - something e/a had been doing pre nerf and without echo .
Didnt think id see the day a mesmer starts crying over a sin skill bein nerfed but i have now.
And as a sin user and one who uses shadowform i think i wont agree , we have to learn and adapt - our skills get nerfed we find new builds to use same as anyone else and i doubt a load of crying mesmers ( cry of frustration springs to mind lol ) will change anets mind and i bet if they did us sins would all get blame for crying lol

def def def /not signed

A11Eur0 · Dec 15, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Seriously, do you guys actually work to mind-vomit into the reply box or does it just come naturally?

dasmitchies · Dec 15, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

All u flamers: I have a question? How does anyone else playing PVE affect you? All these nerfs, and for what? Ectos and Shards went DOWN after the nerf. When is everyone going to figure out that nerfing easier farming builds causes prices for elite stuffs to go down because the customer base dwindles? ANET says they are doing it for the economy, but it seems they are doing for the whiners calling for nerfs. I would love to see the number of daily logins from the Ursan nerf untill now. ANET would never release it but we all saw a drastic drop in PVE players after that nerf. Every time you kill someones build many go bye bye. And for those who say good to that; Remeber ANET is banking heavily on GW2. Their beginning customer base will be crossovers from GW. Given the current financial situation, they need a HUGE opening. The only reason they keep GW server open and updated is to hang on to their fragile customer base praying that they buy GW2. Why does this matter to you? What do you think happens to GW 1+ 2 if GW2 opens flat. Don't act like it can't happen. This has happened to many games. So you guys keep needling other players. Watch them go to other games. Watch ANET fail.

genofreek · Dec 15, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Maybe I missed something, but I read that brick of text and I'm still not sure what the SF nerf has to do with the apocalyptic downfall of Anet. People will play regardless of a nerfed elite. It's happened before.

To the OP, get creative or get a sin. It's a shame when this sort of thing comes up and ruins your build synergy, but you have to learn to adapt. Sorry, but /notsigned.

FengShuiDove · Dec 15, 2008, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Mesmers and other professions couldn't perma before. The buff was stupid from the get-go. If they're not satisfied after this update I hope they change it to its original, pre-buff state.

Then you would never have had perma and you would never complain about losing it.

IronSheik · Dec 15, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Mesmers and other professions couldn't perma before. The buff was stupid from the get-go. If they're not satisfied after this update I hope they change it to its original, pre-buff state.

Then you would never have had perma and you would never complain about losing it.

Wrong, before the SF buff in July/June, Mesmers and sins were the only ones possible, it was just hard, with the buff it was easy, now with the nerf both have trouble.

the Puppeteer · Dec 15, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Oh my I can't effectively use my build - I want for anet to change it so only my profession can do it...

FengShuiDove · Dec 15, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Wrong, before the SF buff in July/June, Mesmers and sins were the only ones possible, it was just hard, with the buff it was easy, now with the nerf both have trouble.

Before the buff it was the same duration it is now on a 60 second recharge, if I remember correctly. It would take incredible precision for a Mesmer to be able to run it without buffing attributes. 22 second duration at 12 SA with +20% ench means you cast echo SF at 19 seconds, get 22 seconds, meaning you're covered for 41 seconds before the original SF has to be up. Without Fast Casting, the 3 second cast time from 40 seconds (when AE recharges) to put SF back up isn't possible... I never tested this, so sure, you could be right, but I know that at 16 SA with 20% enchanting it required casting the copied SF within 1-2 seconds tops before copy expired, and that's with 4 extra seconds to wait for AE and SF recharge on DP-->AE-->SF main chain.

It doesn't seem like it should be a problem with 45 second recharge. 30 second recharge of Shadow Form means you have to cast copied SF at 18-19 seconds still, giving you 22 seconds of SF. Assuming you cast with 1 second to spare on copy, your SF lasts 22 seconds, SF recharges at second 11, AE at 21. I guess the biggest problem would be recharge of Arcane Echo and not being able to cast the chain fast enough.

Meh. Either way, a +1 attribute point con pushes you to 23 second Shadow Form and should buy you that time to cast the chain.

Shadowfox1125 · Dec 15, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

SF is an assassin elite and therefore A/X can use it effectively. However, a Me/A can't use it as effectively. I don't see anything wrong here.

Changing Arcane Echo to work with SF would just open another can of worms. Another skill would then be abused as a result. You have to think of how your changes would affect other skills, not just the one you want. GW changes so learn to adapt. I loved the old Critical Chop and it went to hell, but we adapted.

upier · Dec 15, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

OMG, there is so much fail here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dev Update

We recognize the fact that farming with Shadow Form-based builds can be really fun, so we have not resorted to breaking the ability to keep Shadow Form up permanently.

PvE is OBVIOUSLY supposed to be fun, not balanced.
The guy isn't having fun thus .... ta-dah .... /signed!

Chocobo1 · Dec 15, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

Roflmao - this certainly made my day reading this , ever thought about using a conset to maintain sf - something e/a had been doing pre nerf and without echo .
Didnt think id see the day a mesmer starts crying over a sin skill bein nerfed but i have now.
And as a sin user and one who uses shadowform i think i wont agree , we have to learn and adapt - our skills get nerfed we find new builds to use same as anyone else and i doubt a load of crying mesmers ( cry of frustration springs to mind lol ) will change anets mind and i bet if they did us sins would all get blame for crying lol

def def def /not signed

How sad is it when you get a boner over replying to a GWG Thread? And even then, you are just being an asshole. Asshole boner eh?

Arduin · Dec 15, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

OMG, there is so much fail here!

PvE is OBVIOUSLY supposed to be fun, not balanced.
The guy isn't having fun thus .... ta-dah .... /signed!

Straight to the heart, as always. Now make it so I can farm with SF on my Ranger too, because farming as a Ranger without SF isn't any fun nowadays.

/signed

DarkGanni · Dec 15, 2008, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E

I would like to see this fixed

Errr...fixed? Just because SF can't be maintained anymore with a mesmer doesn't mean it's broken.

Evil Neato · Dec 15, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36

I'd say it's more balanced now (probably not quite). Anything that makes you completely invulnerable should never have been able to last forever.

I understand that your Mesmer is prettier, probably is liked more due to this fact and you pamper her a lot more (or him?); so, it's understandable that you'd prefer to run and farm with your Mesmer over a Dervish or an Assassin. Obviously a lot of people prefer how Mesmers look. The tough reality of it is though, the way GW was made, we can only have one lookset based upon our main class.

Ideally, it would be nice to be able to make a Warrior that looked like an Elementalist, or a Monk that looked like a Warrior, et cetera. I'm talking visual appearance. Of course, they'd have to make 7 different versions (for each body type) of all the armors, and they'd have to allow character customization that would allow us to change how our characters looked. Honestly, since this is the actual problem at hand, I'm all for them adding it. I've always been for visual customizations. I do really believe this is the problem for you, I know it's a problem for me as well. But with the way the game is designed currently, short of the aforementioned, it simply isn't possible to do and maintain balance.

Now that I've typed that though... I'm starting to really like my idea. :P